Our country should formulate special: Commercial Law Commercial Law ""
    Moderator: Wang Jun
    Affirmative : Li Jianwei Wang Yong
    The : Li Yongjun Liu Jiaan
    Time: November 24, 2007 13:30-15.: 30
    Location: China University of Political Science and Law graduate school auditorium

 Moderator: dear teachers, good afternoon everyone, here we have invited the player (player came to power, warm applause). From here the reaction of the students we see we have very high expectations on both sides of the debate. Liquidity this time we will emphasize the debate, each scholar speech time will be subject to strict control, finally we will leave 20 minutes to present all the teachers and the students questions.
     Our topic is whether China should formulate general principles of commercial law, sitting on my left side is Affirmative, they come from the general principles of commercial law commercial law, should be developed in China, I want to emphasize is the afternoon of the camp is very different than the morning, both sides of the position is very clear, in addition to a very interesting features, I want to introduce, the six scholars on the different academic background, so we will see different perspectives from different fields of view, collide, sparks. So I first introduce sit on my right hand side from the civil law three scholars, first of all is the Li Yongjun teacher, he studied in Russia, is also involved in the Chinese civil code "Russia", "Russian Civil Code" includes a lot of commercial law, which will also become a resource for today's debate; the second teacher is Liu Jiaan (applause), today it seems a lot of teacher Liu Jiaan "fans", is probably the "friends group". Liu Jiaan teacher learning in Italy, the civil code of Italy is a typical civil law and commercial law in the civil code, which in today's debate I think could be reflected; third teacher is Zhu Qingyu (applause), he has a deep research on the theory of German civil law basis, I believe we all understand. Then I introduce sitting in my three teacher left, first of all is the Li Jianwei teacher, it is not only a doctor of law, but also a management degree, he often discusses legal issues from the perspective of management; the second is Wang Chung teacher, this is a common method of often accomplished scholar; third teacher is Wu Rihuan, he has a study on South Korea and Japan Inc law, and translation related work, this is a very good academic background, can play a very good in today's debate.
     We argue this afternoon may not leave a lot of people to speak to all scholars of the time, we emphasize on the subject of debate. In fact, we debate today is not a new problem, as early as in 1904, the Qing government promulgated the "imperial business law", the former nine called "general rule of businessman", it provides what is a businessman, what is commercial behavior, what is a business qualification and books etc.. It can be said that this is one has lasted 103 years historical topic. Today we talk about China rise, peaceful rise not by force, but by the strength of the rise of industry and commerce. Then, in the commercial aspects of our legal scholars will determine how such a historical trend, commercial law should play what kind of role. Today's topic is has a deep historical background, we will be with the history of deep concern and expectation for the future to discuss this issue. We have the spirit of the one who claims the principle of burden of proof, the first call Affirmative teacher Wu Rihuan six minutes to explain their theme.
     Professor Wu Rihuan: just ask the spokesman of the time limit within six minutes, I think as a valuable time to speak some short, but I respect the rules. Development of general principles of commercial law, we should consider what is called the general principles of commercial law, since we all know that the reform and opening up, China's civil legislation has been a combination of civil and commercial legislation pattern, contract law, whether it is in 1986 or 1999 of the general principles of the civil law, is such a situation, but we'll have to face the the formulation of the general principles of civil law, which is the compilation of the civil code, so we started talking about the legislation should adopt what kind of way. So from the beginning of 2004, some scholars, mainly is the mainstream scholars in some commercial law, began to call for a general principles of commercial law. We all know that there are three main legislation modes of continental law system of civil law: one is from the form to the substance of the separation of civil and commercial law, in the civil code, shall be separately formulated commercial code complete system, which has a certain history background, but anyway, the mainstream of the Continental law system now, German, France and Japan have adopted such a model; another is from the form to the real one, with Italy and Switzerland as the representative, these countries to adopt such a mode of civil code, which also contains a lot of commercial specification; the third is the form and substance of the incomplete sense consistent, codification of course, the civil code may have some commercial specification, but don't make the commercial code, the commercial laws and regulations shall be formulated separately, is essentially a discrete, such as legislative mode of China's Taiwan region, they have some special commercial relations developed separately, and are not included in the civil code. So facing the three different civil code pattern, of course, we have a certain historical background, how to develop the general principles of civil law and civil law, is to follow the historical path or innovations. In respect of our historical background and current legislation pattern case. Some scholars propose to formulate general principles of commercial law. A general commercial law commercial law of continental law system is not the same with the general principles of commercial law, which includes the content, but also should include a general business behavior, does not contain the general rule in the civil law code. Some scholars think that in 1986 the general principles of the civil law model, using commercial general or general principles of commercial law named general in general, to name the difference between traditional civil law, the general principles of civil law and the traditional name is not the same, he is not the pursuit of logic and coherence is too high level, only for the development of our commercial practice, we believe that the lack of need for such things to supplement the civil law and the separate law, this is a conceptual problem. About the range, say from merchants, commercial subject to business behavior, the general content of the traditional civil law, general principles of commercial law contained can include. Just say no to seek the logical system is too high level of complete, different from the general commercial law in the past, so in general principles of commercial law or general principles of commercial law title, but also respect our existing civil law and commercial law legislation pattern, of course, the current civil code should not be included in the content we can provisions in the general principles of commercial law, then his position should be the general law, but it and other general single commercial law should be the relationship between general law and special law, but it is not deprived of civil law as private law commander position, so the relation between him and the civil law is the general law and special law. As for the necessity of development, based on the current state and there are a lot of reasons, we are now the commercial legislation has a lot of blank, the lack of commercial general rule, in order to deal with the relationship between commercial law and civil law better, we advocate the establishment of general principles of commercial law, in order to promote the development of commercial relations under the socialist market economy.
     Moderator: Mr. Wu's view is very clear, I hear his speech just expressed enough respect and courtesy of civil law, civil law is the general law that, so let's listen to the other side of the argument, please Li Yongjun teacher. The time limit in five minutes.
     Professor Li Yongjun: No, three minutes. I personally think the problem just Professor Wu told me very clearly, I want to ask Affirmative what general principles of commercial law, just Wu told to follow the general principles of the civil law, the general principles of the civil law making everyone knows it is the background of the. Since the new Chinese liberation, we had several civil code motion, failed, summarize experience, is the civil code to stimulate a person too much, so in the general principles of the civil law way to solve this problem. I don't know the legislation of general principles of Is it right? Also have this background, so use rules to explain the problem to appear especially humility. Because the term general rules for foreign language translation is difficult to have a precise meaning of the word, such as the general principles of the civil law, a lot of foreign versions of translation is the civil code, for both general and specific, so it has become an alternative way, so I understand, because Mr Wu to this point, may background similar. So in my opinion, whether in the Chinese or foreign, regarding the relationship between civil and commercial is a conclusion, this is a very clear problem, and even some old imperialist countries, the separation of civil and commercial law countries are engaged in civil law and commercial law, for example in 1900 after the Swiss civil code, the the Holland civil code, the civil code of Italy in 1942, and the end of the last century Russian Civil code. Germany and France, is traditionally the separation of civil and commercial law countries, but they are not only stay in theory, the two countries have a special commission on civil law and commercial law, but the traditional strength is too strong, it is difficult to combine. So the German and French many famous scholars have advocated the combination of civil and commercial law, it is no problem, for example, the famous German law expert Khanna Chis, he opposed the separation of civil and commercial law. Although he is to study law, but he believes that the law itself is not a rational choice, is a historical result. I think such a problem, we are standing at the angle of rationality to today, considering commercial code problem, they (Affirmative) just to think this is not appropriate, it is a historical result is not a rational choice, so when we are in a rational manner to choose whether to commercial code or general principles of commercial law, I seem to see some of the anti rational. I think so, I don't know my colleagues on this issue Is it right? Too?
     Moderator: Mr. Li is the problem of general principles of commercial law Is it right? Commercial code? Today we discuss the general principles of commercial law or commercial law and civil code exactly is what relation, we have requested the Affirmative speech.
     Professor Wang Yong: from both sides just now we can find, a basic problem we face now is the traditional form, the unification and division of civil law and commercial law, we think this is a derived from traditional stereotypes, itself is not the result of reflection and analysis of the deep. We just heard from or foreigners say that the separation of civil and commercial law or civil law and commercial law, but this argument can be traced back at the beginning of the century, and our future generations have no reflection and analysis deeply, if we after reflection and deep analysis, we find that, in all countries, no matter it is called civil law and commercial law or separation of civil and commercial law, the essence is the separation of civil and commercial law. About what is the separation of civil and commercial law, the key is to see what? Economic activity at the national laws of for-profit have special provisions. If the special provisions, the provisions of civil law and is different from the general sense, so he is the separation of civil and commercial law, as to what kind of form, is a commercial code or law, or add some law in the civil law code, such as Switzerland and Italy will do so too, but these are form, as a jurist, we should see the essence through the form of his. If you look at it, China never minshangheyi we will find that, I always think China is the separation of civil and commercial law, whether in the classroom or in formal academic conference, Chinese is not a commercial code separation of civil and commercial law countries. Then we are faced with the problem is, since a Chinese nature of separation of civil and commercial law, is not a commercial code separation of civil and commercial law countries, so we should put these in separate law, commercial law provisions to make special provisions, different from the civil law issues in general. We see each other have been developed, is the general principles of the civil law or civil law? Confused and attempt to develop and the general principles of the civil law background, but I want to emphasize is, the general principles of the civil law is a problem in the Chinese law academic thinking is not developed, but today the situation has changed, so from this point of view, this problem is in a substantial separation of civil and commercial law countries would you like a general, if you want to ask is general or general? I can clearly say, is the general. General formulation of what? It should be the provisions of some general problems of commercial law, it can be included in our business concept regulation, so why the provisions of such a concept? We found that in many of the specific law, securities law, company law and so on will have a basic concept -- business, for example we emphasized the separate operation, the trust industry engaged in the securities industry, the securities industry to engage in trust industry, or the general corpus is engaged in the securities industry, how to distinguish it is an ordinary trust or a a civil relationship, how to define whether it mixed operation, the key is his business. But what is called the business, we are all the law, there is no clear provisions we even in our civil law, so we need to make provisions on it in the business. There are commercial registration legislation, it cost huge, tedious repetition, each of us has an enterprise law, the State Council should give a complete registration ordinance. So why not put these Registration Ordinance general, unified in a commercial general provisions of regulations. Again for instance name, also relates to a problem in many enterprises, we now only be provided in the State Council and the State Administration for Industry and commerce administrative regulations inside, which involves the fundamental problem of enterprise development, how can he awarded to the Administration for Industry and commerce, we should put it referred to the standing Committee of the NPC level last, it referred to general principles, basic level. In addition, there are commercial books and so on, so the problem is not a general relates to the traditional civil law and commercial law and separation of civil and commercial issues, the problem has not become us to solve practical problems, improve China legislation, make rational to Chinese legislation of the real one obstacle. So if you mention it, we are delimitingly prison, this method is not desirable.
     Host: now the problem has been to some specific argument, just Wang Chung Professor view is commercial general should include some specific problems, such as business registration, account books and trade name, is also our debate is likely to surpass the original division of civil and commercial question one, we now invite the speech.
     Professor Liu Jiaan: Zhu teachers humility, then I said first. Wang Yong has just the teacher's speech impressed us, because his statement defines our subject, and he mentioned that we Chinese is essentially a separation of civil and commercial law countries, teacher Wang's eyes, at least he feel (laughter), so sharp, he through the phenomenon, through the form, see the essence of Chinese law. Teacher Wang's argument, it is China is in fact a separation of civil and commercial law of the country, has been set up, then we will ask, making commercial code or general principles of commercial law, which itself is a what thing? As we all know, we put the law of an abstract assembly, in fact he is a rational form of expression, in outstanding form a rational level. Since Mr. Wang to highlight the real situation, but also to achieve the perfect form, why not the specific form of the civil code, civil division continues to retain his original? If you want to achieve rational form, we may have another choice, that we may in fact some commercial law, some aspects of the elephant teacher expression, but these aspects as I said can let it continue to retain, on the other hand, if as a civil code chauvinism. In my opinion, these commercial specification can still be included in the civil code. For example in the legal system, we can still give corporate for-profit some basic norms, then I think that is a more intensive, more abstract of the civil code, can still retain the civil law and commercial law form, this is my response to teacher Wang views. On the other hand, I think, if we're talking about the unification and separation of civil and commercial law, we can not avoid the obstacle trend of this issue, we demonstrate the civil law and commercial law also said, see now the countries of Italy, Switzerland, Holland has taken a combination of civil and business style, I think the civil law and commercial law and the separation of civil and commercial law is no longer a debate in the world, at least in the scope of the EU law there is a worthy of our attention trends, namely the protection of consumer rights. Protecting the interests of consumers can be an isolated problem, it can also be a possible effect of civil and commercial style problem, below I simple demonstration. Before the consumer rights and interests protection, we discuss the basic civil law and commercial law is civil law and commercial law of people we Is it right? Should be the same as a treat, or in other words, civil and commercial act Is it right? Should be the same to treat the issue of. I personally observed, at least for nearly a century, we see a civil and commercial law of the problem, which means that even if the person in civil law is considered, he often participate in commercial activities of some businessmen quality requirements, such as strict rules offer, promise, in fact, ordinary civil law people have to abide by these rules, the so-called civil code outside the commercial code, essentially to put forward more strict requirements for the merchant, then with civil law raises some requirements to the ordinary body, then the body of businessmen Is it right? Already no longer highlights. Now the world the new trend is act in a diametrically opposite way, is in such a course based on the requirements of the civil subject to give consumers a special treatment, so the consumer protection issues will shake the combination of civil and commercial codes or separation of civil and commercial law system fundamentally, a phenomenon which we can observe in continental Europe to, so my view is that instead of making a commercial for the merchant specific, independent, as good protection method to improve the consumer so that a perfect legal system, so as to delineate a special protection for consumers.
     Professor Li Yongjun: I add, on the views of Professor Wang Yong I make a response. First a bit about what is the general principles of commercial law, just Wu Rihuan and Professor Wang Yong said is inconsistent, we all hear it. Professor Wang Yong says it is general, but Professor Wu Rihuan says it includes general also includes some specific provisions, which itself is not the same; second point about Wang Yong said the world is the separation of civil and commercial law, as we speak of unification and division of civil law and Commercial Law Commercial Law is not from the existence of this sense, but from the existing form of commercial sense, so the professor Wang in civil law and commercial law and separation of civil and commercial aspects of his stealing a concept. I never against the law, but the problem is that commercial law exists in what form, Chinese has always been the separation of civil and commercial law, the world is the separation of civil and commercial form, just not the same. In addition to general is how come, say I am trying to confuse the issue, I say it isn't so. Because of our legislature when drafting legislation plan is very clear, not a lot of civil law, I think you all know this thing, so we come up with the general principles of the civil law, at this point, are as like as two peas of codification in the general principles of the civil law of the background with the opposition at the time, these I supplement.
     Professor Wang Yong: just the other party has been fully recognized in the Chinese civil essentially discrete, with their first floor has a concession, first of all to consolidate consensus through difficult speech reached preliminary. (laughter, applause) each other trying to "transfer" I and Professor Wu's point of view, I want to emphasize, the general rules of Professor Wu just said is the primary stage of general told me, (laughter) to me this is general, to Li Jianwei's estimate is called commercial code, but he is not say, I don't know exactly what he said. Below we let the "primary stage" speak again. (laughter.)
     Professor Wu Rihuan: the primary stage is very important, not after the primary stage to advanced stage, impossible. (laughter) was professor Li Yongjun wanted to "transfer" of our relationship, (laughter) but we in general is no different, of course, the primary stage and the advanced stage of possible ambiguity, the current commercial circles many mainstream scholars to join advocate general principles of commercial law making team Wu Zhonglai, but how to develop, what should be included content, this have different views, in fact, it is difficult to form a unified understanding, this is what we will discuss the next step, to determine in practice, there is no need to engage, specifically how to do further business volume. Second I think of just Li Yongjun and Professor Liu Jiaan, different attitude, that is within the scope of world civil law and commercial law is a big trend, it seems not much, in fact. We examine the world division of civil law and commercial law and civil law and commercial law country, apparently separate, including Eastern European countries recently this year also added to discrete ranks, although the commercial code of each country in constant change, but the rule of merchant and commercial behavior of such a basic basically no change, we must pay attention to the fact. Then professor Liu Jiaan said that more attention should be paid to the consumer protection law, has its own principles of course I want to emphasize the law content, I'm not saying the general principle of private law, which is a very important, difference and general civil law is the principle of strict liability, because commercial transactions is anti forte, group, a large number of transactions, with the general law of individual, a small amount of transactions are different, so in order to better protect consumers by each other, we determine the strict responsibility principle of commercial law, it is not the same as with the civil law, of course, from the Perspective of economic law, we can from the consumer protection law from the angle of national interests, the state can intervene the market, protect better consumption. Then out of the commercial phenomenon of civil law, civil law and commercial law theory was a major advocate, civil law absorbs a regular commercial long form, and the introduction of the civil law, the person in civil law and commercial law firms are almost the same, of course now society, everyone has the pursuit of profit motivation, so each ordinary people point to the target is an image of an enterprise, it is closer to the enterprise. Of course, the Civil Law Commercial Law Commercial Law is limited, the rules may not immediately enter the civil law, it is a process. The German scholars think it like a glacier, frozen to the upstream, downstream melt, into the civil law, and commercial practice of the commercial specification of the demand always exceeds the development speed of the civil norms in civil law, so before the independence of business norms, there is.
     Li Jianwei: after two rounds of short PK, although I feel graduates more acceptable to our views, (laughter) I don't think the pursuit of the upper layer, frankly speaking, both the concept and the separation of civil and commercial pursuit of understanding there is a certain gap, so the following discussion I want to lead you beyond the separation of civil and commercial law and civil law and commercial law, I mainly respond to the viewpoint of Professor Yong Jun.
    Just professor Li Yongjun very rational analysis and I have great admiration and psychiatric problems, but he rational analysis result I do not accept. (laughter) I want to ask is, what is the product of legislation of jurists logical reasoning or the product of social life, just Yong Jun Professor reviews all civil codification, commercial code of history, also introduces the historical background of China 86 years to develop the general principles of the civil law, in fact, not only the end of the nineteenth Century the commercial code itself is introduced, the civil code promulgated he is not a necessity, but when countries were in solving the specific background of life, if we review the history of words, you will find the German civil code and commercial code promulgated, it has a very important historical background is it explained at that time the territory of Germany state forest, national unity, unified Germany law requirements, and codification due to this demand, we know that the last century USA has also carried on the uniform commercial code motion, and the motion is in fact not jurists logical reasoning results, but in order to solve the transcontinental trade develop the uniform commercial code, the establishment of a commercial alliance between the States, the federal system is more stable America. So, we now the problem is our formulation of general principles of commercial law, what is the problem? We have what special problem? When did in 1986 formulated the general principles of the civil law, there is a Wang Yong professor said our civil law scholars thinking, theoretical achievements and social conditions are not met, rushed out of such a thing. But each time each subject of times, each time requirements of every age, every era has each time the social contradictions, we according to the teaching of rational thinking Yong Jun professor's words, I came to the conclusion that it is now our legislation of general principles is our through the negation of negation, the rational reason, the inevitable result thinking about that.
    I'll respond to home is the general principles of commercial law professor, we made, I want to explain that he is not a purely rational, not a jurist design, nor a born product, in fact we want this general formulation includes commercial behavior, including business registration, including the accounting books, including business and transfer and so on, in our country there is no such specification? There, reflected in the various ministries and commissions under the State Council, the administrative rules, some of which even some even policy rules are not, in such systems, even an administrative regulations are very difficult to see, the legislative level is very low, but it finds some problems in the operation of our commercial law, and establishes some basic rules, proposed rules, has also developed, but because of the low level, but is the product of the spirit of the legislation law, it has been seriously distorted, something that belonged to civil law, the Department of standards into administrative management of things, we formulate general principles of commercial law what will you do now? To integrate, to improve, to refine these low levels of things, let it rise to become the National People's Congress or the Standing Committee of the legislature, so this process is a process of ascension. The actual us formulate general principles of commercial law, and civil law making is not in conflict, we fight target is the department benefit and the low level of legislation. I say one more word, the legislation content actually like the real right law, real right law promulgated since he is not a new method, it also provided some duplication of department law, also have the provisions of the original department law not appropriate correction of the provisions, there are of course new content, so our future the general principles of commercial law will also be a result of this, in this sense, if the negation of general principles of commercial law making, similarly, we also firmly denied making real right law.
     Moderator: just Wu speaking in general commercial law specifically what have specific research, we see that the "civil code chauvinist" issued a complacent smile. Immediately Li Jianwei the teacher answered the question, to include some dispersed content in low level legal inside, to enhance the guidance law, I would like to ask the Is it right?, so these problems can be solved by the civil law, the existing legislative mode can solve these problems? Do you think that does not need general commercial law?
     Professor Zhu Qingyu: Is it right? That I speak? (laughter) very ashamed, two days before I still ask Professor Zhao Xudong what is the general principles of commercial law, and I must oppose each other, I feel very embarrassed, I said I in Taiwan a agree with you how to do? (laughter) after the station only to find it easier to argue with them. (laughter, applause) from the name of general principles of commercial law to start, why the general principles of commercial law. Wu first introduced what is according to the general principles of the civil law general principles of commercial law, it, use the analogy, then we will see there is no analogy based. This point Mr. Li Yongjun has said, why do we call the general principles of the civil law, there are two points, we wanted to make the civil code, but finally got the general principles of the civil law, the first of our ability is not reached, so do not come out the civil code, which is not only our academic ability, including the capacity of all aspects of the problem; change second at the time of social relations is very fast, we developed the civil code after the social relations may have changed, so the social system is not enough to make the civil code. These two points, first I don't think now of commercial law scholars do not have the ability to develop commercial code, so you don't need to come up with a general commercial law, rapid degree of second I don't think the present social relations as the late 70's early 80's, now our social relationships have stereotypes the goal is, in the maintenance of the socialist market economy, so the basic social relations change, academic capacity upgrade, there is no need to re engage in commercial law.
    The second point is about the unification and separation of civil and commercial issues, this I have confused, Li just pointed out their different opinions, why would they defined as "transfer"? Their judgment feels as if it is not the same, such as professor Wang Yong said although the form is not the same, but the whole world is essentially a separation of civil and commercial law, Wu Rihuan said the teacher why to develop general principles of commercial law, he said that in respect to civil law and Commercial Law basis to determine the general principles of commercial law. If not existing civil in one word, then why should respect the existing civil law and commercial law pattern? I think this is a problem, we can be divided into two aspects to analyze, first we should freeze the civil law and commercial law or promote the separation of civil and commercial law, second of our current legal system is the combination of civil and commercial codes or separation of civil and commercial law? I do not say the first point, should be the combination of civil and commercial codes or separation of civil and commercial law, I won't say it, just An Heli teacher said edge. I mainly respond to Mr. Wang Yong on China's separation of civil and commercial judgments, Wang said that China is the separation of civil and commercial law, but in the end is the separation of civil and commercial law and civil law and commercial law, judgment is actually very simple, you see the specific standard setting, "contract law" article 196th is about the definition of the loan contract, it said the loan contract is lenders made loans due to repay the loan and interest payment contract from the lender, in Germany the separation of civil and commercial law countries, he defined the loan contract first distinguish civil borrowing or commercial loan, civil borrowing to pay no interest is, only commercial loan to pay interest for the principle, we "contract law" article 196th in the when defining borrowing is clearly to commercial loan contract principle is defined as the starting point, so do one exception clause in article 211, the clause is said between natural persons, if there is no agreement or interest on the loan contract interest is not clear, as non payment of interest. In this way our contract is by the commercial rules as the principle, by the civil rules as the exception, it pursues is the combination of civil and commercial law, civil law and commercial law because the inevitable result is that all rules of commercial. Because the duty on all aspects of the business rules that require more high, do not know why professor Wang Yong emphasizes for many times, including in the middle of the classroom and emphasizes our country is the separation of civil and commercial law, this is the second question. The third question is about the general principles of commercial law including those contents, he also read this as "transfer", Professor Wu that consists of two parts, one part is about the general content, the other part is included no provisions existing commercial law in the content, and Professor Wang Yong very resolute and decisive to say that the general. First, said Mr Wu's point of view, in fact, our existing commercial rules, no provisions of commercial code in the content, can say generally, our opponents in the general principles of commercial law that means we all be not what it set out, we call it the general principles of commercial law. If this is true, I feel they called him the general principles of commercial law as it is called commercial supplement, may be more appropriate. Second general principles of commercial law if only includes commercial general, it is not necessary to have a commercial general. Mr. Wang is very necessary, he cited several reasons: first, the business to business requirements, we usually think of it and business behavior combined to understand, when it comes to business behavior, we will immediately find a variety of commercial behavior in fact in too far apart, I do not know if there is no common rules type commercial capacity big and so in the gap which is abstracted from a general commercial behavior, and abstract regulations are still under common law rules the rules, I doubt it, I have it is necessary also expressed doubt. I think there is a specific regulations to stipulate business behavior can be, the various sectors of the business rules are not the same. Second includes a registration method is not enough to develop general principles of commercial law, why? The civil law also have registered, not only the commercial law is the registration problem, but the civil law scholar does not think that registration will be the general civil rules, such as in Germany, the registration of real estate and similar registration rules as auxiliary rules to understand does not move, not as a general principle to understand, if register as the provisions of general principles of commercial law, if I is the study of procedural law scholars, I will be very happy. Because the substantive rules have put my rules of procedure as its general, I think this is the procedure law rather than the law scholars victory victory. So I think the rules of business registration is not enough to constitute commercial general. Third, about the trade name, trade name protection different businessmen are different, and different merchants and its nature is completely different, so there are sex laws, there is no need to come up with a common business rules, I doubt it. Commercial account books, accounting books this is the issues of accounting standards, it also can become the general principles of commercial law, I exist on the commercial general values continue to doubt. (laughter.)
     Professor Li Yongjun: I will complement our teacher Mr Zhu's speech. Just now Mr Wu said, said the trading rules of civil law and commercial law is not the same, then I want to ask is, civil law and commercial law what different? It is the tools of the trade are contract law, contract law, we only have a unified, contract law, we did not distinguish individuals trading or merchant trading, trading tools since, how can it have strict rules? So just Qing Yu teacher pointed out, can be summed up the principle to be suspected of the commercial law. Another about Jianwei teacher said, Jianwei teacher is beyond beyond the separation of civil and commercial law, commercial law, on the surface looks beyond the ha (laughter), because his teachers in the professional his people's University is civil law, is the Wang Liming teacher student, he and credit to commercial law, but he has been teaching law, so he must go beyond the separation of civil and commercial law, (laughter) must go beyond the civil law and commercial law, he advocated that the development of general principles of commercial law to avoid the spread of a single law, but I would like to ask the question is, even if you make the general principles of commercial law, you can avoid these departments or even not rules things out? This is Chinese characteristics, for example, we make the general principles of the civil law, historical experience tells us, 86 years after the formulation of the general principles of the civil law can we stop each department rules? We can't avoid, Chinese power is greater than the law, this is we can not avoid the fact, so I also feel doubt, because we have no experience proof -- they rule has not come out, after the commercial rules you out, you will be able to avoid the various departments rules? I'm afraid this is not a reason. Similar beyond, actually not exceeding! (laughter.)
     Moderator: civil law scholars put forward a lot of questions, we have a look how academics respond to commercial law.
     Professor Wang Yong: worthy of praise is just Zhu Qingyu teacher speech to our discussion to a more delicate and detailed direction, which is what we want to see. Let our meticulous analysis about the question of teacher Zhu Qingyu just made, I just think this is we should be more in-depth study of the place in the formulation of general principles of commercial law at. Of course, we have to point out a nursery teacher's opinion is trying to we have just agreed to pull back. We have just reached on civil substantive division, he seems not willing to admit, even though no explicit expression, he to some problems in the contract law to show that commercial is one, not separate. This is the local gone global, because you want to see if you want to see the separation of law law numerous, company law, securities law, insurance law, anything in the contract law, so from the amount of separation, separation of civil and commercial law in the volume of the phenomenon can be said to have reached the quality the division, the contract law, is indeed a separation of civil and commercial law is not too obvious, but even in contract law, we can also see a lot of commercial contracts in the contract also be clear and separate provisions, such as leasing ah, the construction contract and so on, so that we establish it was the consensus, should continue to stabilize, this is a question we want to emphasize.
    Here are second problems about teacher Zhu Qingyu proposed, is about to conclude general? What exactly do the general provisions, just Li Jianwei has stated it, here I want to summarize. The general may include several aspects, to make a vivid metaphor, the first kind is similar pumping cocoon, second is the Pearl Necklace type, third it is fill in the blanks. Then the pumping cocoon model is what? When we try to in the complexity of different commercial activities to find some common rules, and then to general rules, for example, I just said business ah, firm and so on, but there should be a tendency that more and more, the principle when we are formulating general abstract out of the show was a success we formulate the general principles of commercial law. In fact, this is more dangerous, just Qing Yu has mentioned this problem, so we would like to emphasize that, in the formulation of general principles of commercial law in the process of making this level, especially in the first level pumping cocoon, we should adhere to the basic attitude to solve practical problems, practice what is the problem, the problem is can be abstracted to a general provision, if not necessary, determined not to, this is a more rational attitude. So don't like others to say, what areas have to smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, it becomes a cramp, (laughter.) so we at this point there is a clearly defined. Then we say there is a pearl necklace type, we need to put a lot of things system, this problem just home teacher rebuttal we say, what are you going to systematic, zero zero odd not good? That I'm not happy, (laughter) will allow you to civil law system, put your civil code something so beautiful, it does not allow us to commercial law system a? (laughter.) so it is purely just state officer arson, forbid common people light. (laughter.)
    Another level, on the legal documents, business and other low order bits up to a high level of law, an important aspect of this is our legislation, then professor Li Yongjun talked about, why you do is of no use,? Chinese local government. Too bad, you are out of the code, he had rules (Professor Li Yongjun chipped in: This is the interpretation of ah, I can not say), Chinese local government regulations after we make the rules, this does exist, but we want to emphasize one point, in Chinese "legislative law" and some other basic conditions, general rules when firm, commercial registration, commercial subject in the National People's Congress or the Standing Committee through, as the basic law is determined, even with the department or local government to enact regulations, so he is very difficult to break through the limits of the law.
    Moderator: Mr. Wang Yong views have been described more clearly, I think or responding to a specific problem, just Zhu Qingyu teacher has said, many business behavior character is stronger, the business behavior of these personality strong how in the general principles of commercial law in it sums up a general commercial behavior rules, please a positive answer to this question.
    Professor Li Jianwei: I put it as making a suspicion of general principles of commercial law is the ability to do the business of law scholars, a worry, just as we China worry China all scholars of civil law scholars can make a civil code of good. (laughter) I think this worry is everywhere, we can understand.
    I'll respond to two points, the first commercial behavior relative civil behavior, its special is the objective existence, just Yong Jun professor introduced me a little background and present situation of teaching, it is because I learned the civil law and commercial law, civil law and commercial law not only to teach to teach, so I feel I can compare justice about the separation of civil and commercial law and civil law and commercial law dispute. I in this not Xiangqing education professor, Professor of commercial law in Qing education attainment is very deep, but I have decided to head butt. As he sat there, so he pretended to be don't know to the commercial law point, pretending to take an ignorant fearless attitude to question some of the problems of commercial law scholars. (laughter) I'll respond, special first business behavior reflected in it, reflected in many fields, such as the sea pearl, in order to look not to come, but we can easily come up with one or two examples, for example our commercial decisions and the company sets up the behavior, we can also say is civil action in civil law, but also has strict requirement for the establishment and effective, if the requirement for the establishment and effective defect, so also is invalid and revoked, but we know that the cancellation of civil behavior especially the invalid system, should be recognized as invalid from the beginning, the statutory invalid invalid, forever, but this rule in the field of commercial law is not feasible, because we can't force, and if we think a company set up invalid, to trace back to the company registration was invalid, it can cause a large area of damage to the social security of transactions, so the commercial law in handling this kind of resolution and the establishment of the invalid, may not be able to recognize its retroactive effect, on the contrary, our principle is not to admit its retroactivity. So I want to show here the commercial act and civil behavior of different. Another problem is about the general principles of commercial law abstract problems, I just feel that Mr. Wang Yong has done a good analogy, they have own particularity, it is beyond doubt, if we have to discuss it, I'm afraid today host does not necessarily give me time, so I give up this effort. But the problem is about the general principles of commercial law commercial law scholars in the end be able to do that, I think the commercial law scholars not to cramp, may do a moderate induction of abstract. In fact, commercial behavior of such generality and particularity, universality and particularity and civil behavior, if not to do a comparison, it may at the time as the Zhou Dynasty, we recognize that the emperor week has the world, this is our entire legal system, and the feudal country, our civil law is a state while the commercial law of civil law, like the general law and the special law, he is a scholar, but scholars have a lot of people ah, but Prince mengchang Yang taxi with Lord Xinling a taxi may well indeed is not the same, it should allow the individual scholar on their turf, the abstract itself the behavior of field in general, so we still have to recognize that the civil law is a national, commercial law is a territory of the literati literati, but also a home, home country the house refers to the literati of the site, so abstracted still don't deny the application of civil behavior of commercial behavior, but this form a commercial law and civil law of civil law relationship, formed around a special law system of commercial law, some specific problems we should apply the general method is better than the other The rules of law, but I want to emphasize is that the recognition is a special law, which is parallel, and there should be the special law of the place.
     Professor Li Yongjun: I added you ah, you are just not answer a question we Qing Yu teacher just mentioned, Wang Yong and Mr Li Jianwei are talking about the formulation of the general principles of the civil law, because the makers do not have the ability of making civil code, just Qing Yu teacher said he no doubt now commercial law scholars develop commercial code ability, but why do you make rules? This problem you but there was no answer.
     Professor Wang Yong: This is actually very simple, because the commercial law is the special law of the civil law, since the civil code has not come, our commercial code out how?
    Professor Liu Jiaan: I want to say that their ability is strong, they have the ability to view. Just Wang Yong teacher can see the essence through the civil code separation of civil and commercial complex, Jianwei teacher through the Qing Yu teacher decided to head butt to see his mind what problem, so I have no doubt of their commercial law scholars now have the ability to develop a commercial code.
     Professor Li Yongjun: so we suggest they develop commercial code, don't make general principles of commercial law.
     Professor Wang Yong: This is one of the most important problem we now face, formulating general principles of commercial law, the practical needs and the law we have done a full exposition, we now return to the legislative politics angle to discuss this issue. Many scholars have suggested that the general principles of commercial law is the need of development of market economy law, we have just explained, then about how the provisions of general principles of commercial law, one of the most feasible way is to add some commercial general in general civil law of the civil code of regulations, but it is a great pity civil law a opposition, so this time we will settle for second best, forget it, then we will not engage in commercial code inside a general commercial law, we make a general commercial law, this is a background. On the relationship between commercial law and civil law, we make a parable, commercial law civil law has been leasing a house, the civil law is the law is the landlord, tenant, thought of the lease relationship can continue, but the landlord for the lifting of the lease contract, the tenant have no alternative against one's will buy their own house, the house is the general principles of commercial law.